Ron Paul 2008 Meetup for Utah County Message Board › Onward!!!
This message board is read-only.
| David Edward Garbe... |
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I've felt disappointed lately to observe that our formidable fighting force (well, more like the start of one) seems to be breaking up as too many of us are feeling discouraged, abandoning the figurative trenches, going our separate ways, giving up delegate positions, rejoining third parties, et cetera.
Sometimes, it's tempting to give up when you fail. Unfortunately, giving up does no good to anyone except our opponents, who enjoy the lessened opposition. If you try but fail to stop a burglar from pilfering your stuff, you don't say, "oh, well, so much for that, I'm just going to enjoy what I've got left"--instead, you fight to get back what you've lost, as well as to do what you can to ensure that he doesn't continue his crime spree unabated. Otherwise, it just emboldens him as he keeps victimizing good people again and again and again. And that applies not just to burglars but to anyone else who's guilty of violating your rights, such as corrupt GOP officers. So, whenever GOP officers succeed in putting themselves above the law/rules, please don't give up or run away but, rather, keep fighting them until they learn their place. Mike Rothfeld addressed a similar concept briefly during his Real Politics Training School in Minnesota. The "right" has typically viewed each battle as being entirely-self contained--and has disbanded after each one is over. By contrast, the "left" has typically viewed each battle as merely part of a very-long-term campaign. In our case, perhaps we should see this more as "up" versus "down" rather than as "left" versus "right." But, in any case, our narrow perspective has helped the enemies of liberty to keep advancing while we've faltered all-too-often in blocking their advance, much less reversing it. We can only win if we're in this fight for the figurative long haul. So, please don't give up now that Ron Paul's campaign has ended but, rather, please keep fighting in this long-term Campaign for Liberty. Mike Rothfeld also explained something else that I'd already kinda figured out--that it's most effective to work within major parties to try to get worthy candidates nominated but, whenever you fail to do so, to punish unworthy ones by giving your support (labor, money, votes, et cetera) to third-party candidates. I know that some of y'all have decided, in the wake of Ron Paul's defeat, to change your GOP affiliation. This will enable you to help put good protest candidates on our general election ballot but, beyond this, will significantly limit your ability to do good within the realm of politics--and, as such, I urge you to please reconsider your decision to affiliate with some other party. Also, once again, please contact me if you'd like to view notes from this Real Politics Training School. By the way, although Ron Paul's U.S. Presidential campaign is over, Rob Alexander's state representative campaign is still in progress and would welcome any help that y'all can provide. Also, Mike Ridgway believes that Curt Bramble is still defeatable in this election cycle, especially due to recent public attention given to his encounter with a pizza-delivery gal, and would love your help with an anti-Bramble effort. So, please contact Mike if you'd like to help take down this corrupt RINO. On a personal note, I'm on academic probation facing possible academic suspension from BYU, I've missed all three of my homework assignments this semester already because politically-related stuff keeps interfering, my pro-Establishment mom is once again putting tremendous pressure on me to give up politics and focus exclusively on school, I've accidentally overdrawn my bank account yet again thanks to my recent political activities, and I'm hungry and have no clue how I'm going to eat tonight, since I have only $2 in my pocket. I keep pushing both my time and my money to the limit (and beyond, since I perpetually overestimate what that limit is) and, although I too-often feel overwhelmed and alone and opposed, I keep fighting day after day, wondering when the figurative cavalry will come to relieve me a bit. I've spent part of my evening composing this message when I could be (finally) doing some homework--so, I hope that at least a few of you will read it and, if you haven't done so already, maybe even commit to doing something useful in the political realm this week, if you can spare just a little time and/or money for it. We have no lack of work to do, only workers to do it. |
| David Edward Garbe... |
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Howdy, y'all! I'd like to add a few things, partly from others' feedback and partly from my own review:
(1) I didn't mean to make conditions sound worse than they were. Perhaps some losses are only natural during transitions like this. But I've also observed that many of y'all are hanging on and feeling eager to do what you can when you can, which is wonderful. I hear that Rob Alexander had twenty volunteers at his last meeting and that they'll be canvassing Rob's district starting this week, which is great news. (2) As I've written before, I recognize that politics is not the only important thing in life and that many of y'all have plenty of other responsibilities and commitments. Please don't feel bad about this, of course--and remember that some things (like family) must certainly come first. I don't fault anyone at all for keeping his/her priorities straight, as well as maintaining a healthy balance in life. And, yes, I do have a weakness of allowing my own life to get a bit out-of-balance at times, which I need to be careful about. And I suppose that I'm at one of those points right now (again). (3) Yes, some of the activities on our calendar aren't necessarily the best uses of your time. As such, I encourage you to follow your own judgment, not necessarily mine. And it seems that quite a few of y'all have been doing some great stuff on your own that none of us have been hearing about. Please feel free to share your individual efforts on our message board and/or mailing list anytime that you feel it's appropriate to inspire others and/or give them good ideas of their own. And please feel free to organize your own great activities for our group, which I'd be happy to post on our calendar and to advertise and such. (4) Although my intent was to motivate folks to action, I think that my words may have been a bit more condemning than inspiring, on the balance. And I apologize for that. So far, nobody has told me that my words were a tad too harsh--but, if they were for anyone, then I apologize for that. Let me add that I'm delighted to know such a large, wonderful, talented, knowledgeable, well-informed, dedicated group of patriots. Many of y'all probably had no need for a pep talk--but, for those who did, I hope that it was helpful. (5) I don't usually publicize when I get myself into a mess and I partly regret doing it this time. Nevertheless, I'm grateful that some of y'all have responded with offers to help. Small bits of aid can certainly add up. I'm guessing that I should be okay for at least a couple of days, I think. And, maybe by that time, I'll have devised a satisfactory plan to navigate out of my latest mess. Or maybe not. If there's anything that I can do to serve y'all better, then I'm always be happy to hear and consider it. Thanks! |
| David Edward Garbe... |
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Hannah DeForest of Provo just replied with this alarming report:
I seriously disagree with your summation of the use of joining third parties. Here is an experience I just shared with some fellow patriots that I have a monthly dinner study group with: |
| David Edward Garbe... |
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Hannah, I was unaware that any party officers had any obligations to support the party's nominees. Thanks for this info. It sounds like some GOP officers may be trying to purge the party of "undesirable elements" like good honest decent principled liberty-lovin' Constitution-respecting Ron Paul Republicans. And that's terribly sad. It sometimes surprises me to what lengths these people will go to try to neutralize threats to their power. Then again, the fact that they want to strip you of your position also demonstrates what a threat you are to them for as long as you hold that position.
Here's why I wrote what I did, for what it may be worth to others: Affiliating with a party doesn't mean that you have to support that party's nominees (or so I thought until I read Hannah's comments) with your labor or money or votes or anything else. But it does allow you to help choose that party's nominees. Third parties don't need so much help in choosing good nominees--but the GOP does. Although it can be difficult to help a good candidate to win GOP nomination, it's certainly achievable if you can just win over enough delegates (and/or become enough delegates). You can only participate in this effort if you affiliate with the GOP. And, if you can get a good nominee on the GOP ballot, then that nominee will have a tremendous advantage during the general election. Most voters are rather ill-educated and ill-informed and deluded by partisan propaganda and will foolishly vote for their party's nominee even if he/she is the lesser of two evils. It helps to start a general election campaign with roughly half of these voters already on your side, rather than almost none. Trying to persuade nearly half of all voters to vote third-party within just a few months is tremendously harder than winning over half of a group of delegates in a caucus/convention system. Also, you don't necessarily have to leave the GOP to fight for third-party candidates in the general election. In any case, that's been my thinking. At least, until these comments from Hannah. Kudos on your integrity, Hannah! And, of course, if everyone followed my advice above, then we'd have no more third parties, which would be a terrible shame. So, some folks need to do it. If some of you have considered this matter from all sides and still believe that changing your affiliation from GOP to something else is best, then you may be right, I don't want to try to stop you, and I wish you well. And, of course, there's still plenty of things that we can all do for the cause of liberty, no matter what our party affiliation may be. |
| Hannah DeForest |
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Someone asked for specifics on the literature the "Education Officer" brought me. Here are the details:
She just brought by the "Constitution of the Utah County Republican Party" and the "Bylaws of the Utah County Republican Party." In the constitution she highlighted Article IV, Section N, Subsection 3 and 4, and Section O (I'm a vice-chair with an absent chair). In the bylaws she highlighted Bylaw 5, Section A, Subsection 1 and 2. (I've included that below so you don't have to look it up.) I found a way around my "obligation" by using the following reasoning (from the email I sent to my Leg Chair): "I'm sure you probably heard about my conversation with ******* today. I wanted to let you know that though she brought by a copy of the Utah County Republican Party Constitution and By-laws indicating which responsibilities she perceived I was abdicating, I am not convinced that this is the case. If you will look at Article IV section O of the Constitution it states: "The Voting Precinct Vice-Chairs shall preside and direct in the absence of their Chair, and shall attend Central Committee meetings." This does not indicate that I, as Vice-Chair with an absent Precinct Chair, would be responsible for the duty presented in Article IV section N part 4. If there is further literature I need to read I would be happy to but as of now I feel comfortable with the decision I have made not to be involved in Steve Clark's campaign." *Article IV, Section N and O [N. The Voting Precinct Chairs shall direct party affairs within their respective Precincts. In addition to powers and responsibilities described in other articles, the Voting Precinct Chairs shall: 1. Preside over their Voting Precinct's Voting Precinct Caucus. 2. Direct fund-raising in the Voting Precinct and, together with the Voting Precinct Treasurer, be responsible for all funds collected. 3. Direct voter identification, education, registration and motivation programs as instructed by the Central Committee. 4. Assist Republican nominees' (candidates unopposed by other Republican Candidates) campaigns within the Voting Precinct. 5. Organize and direct a poll-watching and voter turn-out program to get Republican voters to the polls on election days as instructed by the Central Committee. 6. Attend Central Committee Meetings or send a representative to the meeting. O. The Voting Precinct Vice-Chairs shall preside and direct in the absence of their Chair, and shall attend Central Committee Meetings.] *Bylaw 5, Section A, Subsections 1 and 2 [Bylaw 5 - Republican Party Accountability A. Elected and Appointed Officers - All elected and appointed Party officers, including County Party Chair, Vice-Chair, Treasurer, Secretary, and appointed Officers and Committee Members; all Legislative District Chairs, Vice-Chairs, Education Officers and Committee members; all Voting Precinct Chairs, Vice-Chairs, Secretaries, Treasurers, and Committee Members; and members of any other standing and/or ad hoc committees shall, upon assuming office, agree to: 1. Fulfill the obligations and responsibilities specified in the Utah County Republican Party Constitution. 2. Publicly support only Republican candidates for partisan public office. Any officer who publicly supports or runs as a non-Republican Party candidate in a partisan race will be subject to removal for cause from his/her elected or appointed office. (“Publicly supports” includes such things as, but is not limited to, giving written or oral public endorsements, posting signs, allowing the use of the officer’s name in campaign literature, writing letters to the editor, providing money or in-kind contributions.)] If you can find a hole in that for the chair or any other officer, I would LOVE to hear it. I declined the assumed position change to precinct chair. Hannah |
| Ronald H Levine |
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Hannah DeForest (and group),
Take the precinct chair position. I am proudly a Republican and so is Ron Paul! Ron Paul doesn't leave the Republican Party. He holds the other Republicans accountable. The Republican Party is Ron Paul's strongest opposition. Ron Paul makes the other Republicans look bad because he is more Republican. I've been elected in my Republican precinct caucus regularly over the years as precinct chairman, county delegate and state delegate and served briefly as a state central committee member and I ran for chairman and public office and I don't compromise any of my principles. I certainly have had a lot of opposition and generally that backfires on anyone opposing me as being strongly for our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform. The power of our Republican Party is from the Grassroots up and NOT the other way around. The Republican voters elected you in your precinct caucus. You, acting as an elected precinct vice chairman are a central committee member which is the ruling authority of your county party. Sure there are various pressures, but mainly from me as I pressure our Republican public servants to be adherent to our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform. Click the link and look it over and note how many times that is violated. But, if you are going to itemize, you will be embarking on the huge task of creating a very long list. As a practical matter, one can't be everywhere at once supporting all of our Republican candidates, so use your preference based on which is most adherent to our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform to choose which Republican candidates will get your support. Your establishment supporting opponents attacks on you will be quite frustrated and they certainly won't want to publicize that they are opposing you for being strongly for our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform. If they do, then have fun embarrassing them as they have identified themselves as being in opposition to their platform to favor the establishment candidates also in defiance of our platform. You would have effectively turned the table on them. For example, I am busy campaigning for Rob Alexander, Republican candidate for state representative and entirely consistent with our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform and particularly worthy of my support as a Ron Paul (also a Republican) endorsed candidate for being adherent to these principles unlike many others who call themselves Republican merely by running within our Republican party. Join us. Support Rob Alexander. I routinely cross district boundaries to support good Republican candidates. I help get good Republican candidates get elected regardless of district and I'm particularly proud that I contribute in very effective ways to get bad public servants voted out of office. You are invited to correspond with me more on this in general and this strategy that turns the table on them and questions their Republican principle as it is likely that your objections on candidates is that they defy our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform. It works both ways. They can hold you accountable. You have a solid stand on principle. You can hold them accountable (have fun with that) and often they are weak on our Republican principles of our Utah Republican Party Platform. It is our duty to hold them accountable. Our Founding Fathers admonished us to be "ever vigilant." Stay and fight for Republican principle. I have. You will be fighting only those who oppose our platform. I even have a slogan: Support our Republican movement within our Republican Party! |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| (the above little vertical lines in green represent that this is a grassroots movement) Let me help. Ronald H Levine Sandy, Utah RonaldHLevine@gmail.com |
| Kenneth Davies |
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I have never been a Republican or Democrat. I recognize that both major parties are controlled by the forces of evil on the national level. I don't fault anyone who wants to work within these parties. I just find that my principles are represented better by the Constitution Party. I supported Ron Paul but wasn't allowed to vote for him because I am a Constitution Party member. I think our primary focus needs to be on education. This can happen year round and not just during elections. For those of you who supported Ron Paul, I think you would be most true to the principles he advocates if you support Chuck Baldwin for President.
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| David Edward Garbe... |
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A reply from Vance Hawkins...
Hannah, |